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DMP Pow - S

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DMP Pow - S

Post by Gary Mc on Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:56 am

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has used the DMP's new PoW- spatial system for online lodgement of programmes of work ?

Trying to work out the shapefile requirements at the moment...

How did you find it as compared to the paper lodgement system for PoW-P


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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by oneday on Thu 08 Jun 2017, 2:03 pm

pretty easy and straight forward as a rainbow can be.
keep under 4500T on excess and u shouldnt have too many dramas.

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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by Gary Mc on Thu 08 Jun 2017, 4:36 pm

Thanks Ray, I'll give it a go
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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by goldtalk on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 6:47 am

Haven't used it yet....still go old school and lodge paperwork.

Not being smart...but there are no tonnage restrictions on a P or E. At the moment (and DMP enviros seem to change their mind all the time) you can have 100 000 tonnes on a POW. I just had one approved for 50 000t and it didn't take any longer than any other POW. I ALWAY"S go for more tonnage/area than I think I'm going to need. Untill the DMP comes up with a notification only system, prospectors are put in a situation where it works against us to lodge a POW with a realistic tonnage/area request. Even if I only want to have a scratch on a spot, it will be 6ha and 6000t as a minimum. Don't forget that your roads/tracks into a site...your camping area....everything is included in your footprint....even where you stockpile dirt and even slew a dozer around. Make your pow's nice and big and get approval for more than you need...that way your backside is covered. Also....I never put in a POW unless I have something like...."plus various sample cuts" in the description. That way if I do get a visit (which is a 0% chance anyway) and they ask..."what's that?"....it's a sample cut mate.

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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by Gary Mc on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:00 am

Thanks goldtalk,

The PoW p is for a single EL block, Enviro section suggested a tonnage of 10,000t a  couple of months ago.

The areas that I'd like to work are spread out a bit over the EL and is basically,

1. Ground with previous disturbance that I also have to use tonnage on to rehab old workings

2. Much smaller area of new ground

3. Ground that I'd like to prospect by using by using an auger on the excavator, it may or may not be viable to work depends on what I find, but I'll have to include the whole area in the application just in case.

A lot of the ground is not particularly heavy, weathered calcrete / quartz so would a SG factor of 1.8 be appropriate for tonnage calculations or use something a bit lower ?
Ill' add the sample cuts in there as well.

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Gary
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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by Wedgetail on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 8:02 pm

goldtalk wrote:Haven't used it yet....still go old school and lodge paperwork.

Not being smart...but there are no tonnage restrictions on a P or E. At the moment (and DMP enviros seem to change their mind all the time) you can have 100 000 tonnes on a POW. I just had one approved for 50 000t and it didn't take any longer than any other POW. I ALWAY"S go for more tonnage/area than I think I'm going to need. Untill the DMP comes up with a notification only system, prospectors are put in a situation where it works against us to lodge a POW with a realistic tonnage/area request. Even if I only want to have a scratch on a spot, it will be 6ha and 6000t as  a minimum. Don't forget that your roads/tracks into a site...your camping area....everything is included in your footprint....even where you stockpile dirt and even slew a dozer around. Make your pow's nice and big and get approval for more than you need...that way your backside is covered. Also....I never put in a POW unless I have something like...."plus various sample cuts" in the description. That way if I do get a visit (which is a 0% chance anyway) and they ask..."what's that?"....it's a sample cut mate.

Mostly good stuff Mr T, but things are changing in the last cuppla weeks. The recently DMP Policy on tonnage is proposed to be that anything over 10,000 tonnes and you must get the permission of any Native Title Party before it will be considered. And Gary Mac's tenement is most definitely under an NT claim. I've been advising Gary for months about his issues here.

The DMP came out for comment and APLA recently issued a request for feedback from its members on this new policy, but I got naff all back other than a remark from AMEC of all people! I out something in anyway.

We are blessed down here in "Kaleonoraland" that we don't have NT to deal with in any great measure. But the rest of WA has BIG problems with it. BUT - latest news is that the Wongatharra are planning a big concerted and non-divisive claim on Kal/Leo etc area.

If it gets across the line, you will be in more trouble than Flash Gordon on Saturday morning! May the Lord have mercy on our souls when this lot hits.

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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by goldtalk on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 8:55 pm

sensational Mr Les...another nail in the coffin to professional prospectors!!

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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by Stingray on Mon 12 Jun 2017, 9:38 pm

Thanks for all the comments and info guys, it is very useful and timely. Good luck with your application gary - it would be good to hear how you get on.

For the record I am a member of APLA and a leaseholder and have just started sussing out the POW-S.  It seems relatively straight forward - so far - but I can't give the detailed X marks the spot information because that is the very nature of exploration, you need to find the scent and follow your nose. And where I do - I don't really want to - never know how secure any of the info is. (By the way does anyone know what the story is in regard to confidentiality or otherwise of POW submissions and approvals?)

I would appreciate your thoughts on this approach:  I have worked out roughly what I want to do in terms of locations, area and tonnage, but to retain the necessary flexibility I was intending to group them and represent each group as one long 'disturbance' (nominal length width and depth) that equals the total (ha) of a number of spots within the general areas we have in mind and put in large buffers of around 400 m (the default is 50 m). Doing this you end up with a relatively large area - but shallow average depth. Some spots we will go way deeper but I presume the approval ends up for the total area (ha) and tonnage from within the 'buffer envelope' and not the actual dimensions of the 'averaged' disturbance?.  

Tonnage wise - I have heard that under 10,000 tonnes is relatively straight forward and that should be OK - but I'm not sure if that will be enough.

So Les, with respect to having to obtain permission from the relevant Native Title party  - do you know if that applies even when you have been through the NT process, objections etc heard and the end result is that although the claiment group have had the opportunity, they have not sought the RSHA? In other words there is no Heritage Agreement in place or required?

Also - any word on what is deemed to be a reasonable area? I heard that 10 ha may not be? I was thinking probably 6 would be enough but after considering Tony's comments perhaps 8 ha would be a safer bet?

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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by goldtalk on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 6:22 am

Hi Stingray,
I can only give an opinion based on my experiences....I doubt that DMP staff would give out info. Fact is that people are working your lease with detectors whilst your not there anyway...so what difference do a few more make? It is a very interesting question though...are there any implied confidentiality obligations???...should there be???? These people are public servants and perhaps it's covered that way??? Les?? What I find is that you have to start somewhere with your work. This means you have to nominate a starting point. Your right in that we are prospecting...not mining...so who knows what is going to happen. My experience is that when a flow (and hence my work site) goes in a different direction than I anticipate then I just send the enviro's an email outlining the change...ie...the work site is heading North rather than West. As long as the total disturbance footprint and tonnage that have already been approved is not exceeded then they have always said"no probs" to me. It's the footprint/tonnage that is the basis of the pow and as long as this isn't exceeded then they are happy.....this is why I recommend going for max everything. The other side is that if you do have a gold flow that extends off your approved work site then just apply for a new pow...you'll have to allow another month or so for approval but in the big scheme of things it would be a great problem to have. Yes, tonnage under 10k would be easier to get...but...there is no limit on tonnage...only "limits" set by the enviro's and frankly they seem to be changing their minds every other day. 10k t is not a lot of dirt when you really look at it...it's only a small to medium project. If it's realistic then go for it...but if not then up it to something you can really work with. Good luck with it.

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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by 309mining on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 6:48 am

My dealings with excess tonnage are in line with what Les has explained have been anything up to 10000 tonne for the tenement (P) no problem anything over needs a new native title approval . also to note if a previous pow has been approved for the same tenement that comes off the 10000 total available.
Mining leases no cap on tonnage
Total area applied for no cap
I also go bigger than you think you will need to have room to move. 10000t comes round pretty quick when chasing low grade alluvial.
My 2 cents hope it helps
Cheers Tom

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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by oneday on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 7:29 am

i was led to believe that the excess tonnage is for tonnage actually mined not overburden that needs to be removed prior to dry blowing or detecting.

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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by 309mining on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 7:41 am

Na mate anything over 500t on a P or 1000t on a E they call excess
If you disturb it for whatever reason it is counted

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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by Gary Mc on Thu 17 Aug 2017, 11:31 pm

Got the pow-s approved ok with 9800t excess,

Les, thanks for you advice and help throughout the EL application process, I have a much better understanding of it now and the NT process.

563 days from application to pow approval ! but who's counting Laughing
The DMP processes  were all completed in a timely manor but NT objection to grant slowed things down a bit.

The support that the APLA provides to members is excellent and I have no issues with the proposed membership fee increases.

Cheers
Gary
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Re: DMP Pow - S

Post by Wedgetail on Sat 23 Sep 2017, 8:03 pm

Be very careful when using the POW-S system. I recently put in a POW-S that seemingly went "swimmingly well",,,,until I got the approval! The approval asked me to complete an "Exploration Operations Notification" or EON for short. This EON asks you to nominate an Exploration Manager and complete all sorts of reports under the Mines Safety and Inspection Act and the Safety Reporting System. I was gobsmacked when I got this. Cut a long story short,,,,

If ya get one of these responses from DMIRS please call me or contact Ray - he knows my details. I've had a meeting with the "high ups" in the DMIRS Safety Section and the Enviro Section. The conclusion? The above requirement should not be happening and comes about because of one computer system not talking to the other within DMIRS. Basically, it's wrong and it's a cock up within DMIRS.

Changes are being made - but if ya get one of these letters, call me and I'll tell ya what ya should do.

HTH

W
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